God Doesn't Hate Fags

Earlier this week I wrote a critique on a woman who was interviewed on Fox News. She was from Westboro Baptist Church, and their website has the inviting address of GodHatesFags.com. There are many, many things I can critique about this church, but one thing I wanted to break down was their statement about God hating “fags.”

According to Proverbs 6:16-19, there are six things that God hates and ‘fags’ is not one of them. [1] Furthermore, it is common Christian wisdom that God hates the sin, but loves the sinner. The problem with sin is that our sin is inherited from Adam. We are born unrighteous and will never achieve the righteousness that God demands of us while we are on this Earth. God is perfect, righteous, and just; it wouldn’t be fair to Him or to us to allow sinners in His presence. In other words, we are good enough to be with God, but the sins we commit (and have inherited) have separated us from God’s righteousness. Jesus died for our sins so that we could attain the righteousness (through Christ) that God demands. This righteousness is touched on briefly in 1 John 1:9 where through Christ we will be cleansed from unrighteousness if we confess our sins. [3]

So now that we know that God hates the sin and not the sinner, let’s analyze the statement of “God hates fags.” By the chuch’s statement of “fags”, I’m going to assume the church is referring to homosexuals. Now what sin could homosexuals possibly be committing? Well, in the Bible, homosexuality is a sin and is condemned rather harshly.[4]

Ok, so homosexuality is a sin. Does that mean that God hates homosexuals? Not quite. The statement of “God hates fags” breaks down like this:

  1. A person is a homosexual or lesbian because they engage with people of the same sex.
  2. According to the Bible, this behavior is a sin.
  3. God hates sin.
  4. Therefore, God hates fags.

Now if that logical breakdown doesn’t have you scratching your head, perhaps a better analogy will work. How preposterous is this logical breakdown?

  1. I hate swearing.
  2. My friend Cesar swears.
  3. Therefore I hate my friend Cesar.

The logical breakdown of “God hates fags” doesn’t make any sense. Just because someone commits a sinful behavior does not put them on God’s “hate” list. You have to remember that God loved the world, and he loved it so much that he sent his son down to Earth in order to “save” us from our sin (John 3:16). We were all sinners when Jesus was born. We’re still sinners. Does that mean that God hates us all? Of course not.

Hopefully my analysis of the statement of “God hates fags” provided some logical and biblical insight into why “God doesn’t hate fags.” Oh, and just for the record, I’m not too fond of the word fag, but I had to use it in order to the dissect the statement logically.

Notes

  1. Proverbs 6:16-19 (NIV)

    16 There are six things the LORD hates,
    seven that are detestable to him:

    17 haughty eyes,
    a lying tongue,
    hands that shed innocent blood,

    18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,
    feet that are quick to rush into evil,

    19 a false witness who pours out lies
    and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.

    The list isn’t exhaustive.

  2. 1 John 1:9 (NIV)

    9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

  3. 1 John 1:9 is in the context of talking to those who already believe in Jesus for salvation.
  4. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (NIV)

    9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

    The verse above does not imply that homosexuals automatically are going to hell. It just lists examples of what unbelievers typically are like and says, “Do not be like this!”

16 Comments

  1. Agreed. I wish the people at Westboro would not label themselves as Baptists or Christians, because their actions and beliefs reflect negatively on true Christians.

    Two thoughts: You say that we are born unrighteous, and then later that we are good enough to be with God, but that our sins get in the way. Which one is it? As you said, all people are born sinners (completely fallen nature) because of Adam's sin. There is no point (before conversion) at which we are without sin. Even in this life, our righteous is imputed to us through Christ and we have none of our own. Until we die and are fully sanctified and glorified, we can't stand in God's presence.

    Speaking of standing in God's presence. I don't think saying "it wouldn't be fair" to God quite goes far enough. God is completely holy, righteouas, and perfect (as you said), therefore sin can't even enter His presence. Sin cannot exist in the face of a holy God.

    cetroyer

    • I am not in disagreement with your feelings towards Westboro Baptist Church. I believe it is more like Westboro Baptist Cult. However, the Bible plainly states that God does Hate. I always believed as you state. God hates the sinner, not the person. However. In Malachi 1: 3And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness. In the Strong’s Concordance. The Hebrew meaning of the word sane, saw-nay: a prim. root: to hate(personally): — enemy, foe. So now I am in question and in deep study. Because for years I have been taught that God hates the sin, not the sinner. But very plainly in God’s Word, The Bible it states that he hated Esau. Does not say that he hated Esau’s sin, or actions, but he hated Esau. Please pray. I do not know just what I think after discovering this. It has really set me back. I love God, but to actually know that he might Hate me. Though, I would deserve to be Hated, because I am but only Human, and am solely a sinner saved by grace. I am very confused now. Again, I agree that God does not hate Fag’s as The Westboro Baptist Cult would like some to believe. But, now I am having a bit of difficulty deciding what I believe.

  2. Psalms 53 speaks of the godless and the doers of iniquity. These are those which do not call upon his name. And He despises them. this means He LOATHES them. To loathe is to hate. God hates all godless people. The only way to escape his wrath at judgement is to be covered in the blood of christ. God did not love every person in the world, as psalm 53 says, an as proverbs 6:16 says, He hates a MAN ( a person) who stirs up dissent, And God HATED ESAU! Malachi 1:3. Do not think the LORD unrighteous for his hate, which is most peoples problem that propagates this "christian wisdom" for the lord is righteous in all his deeds, how can the pot say a word other than praise to its creater, we are God's pots and He is the potter. Psalm 53 clearly states those not in God's (Christ's) flock are amoung those he despises. And John 3:16 does not say God loves every person, it says he loved the WORLD. He loved his creation which was in his image, that has turned away from God, but God saw a remnat of hope. He didnt love every part of the world, just that part which was and would be in his image. This passage is very easy to understand. It doent say the whole human population of the world, it says the world and it means the world that belongs to Him not to Satan. WHich is the hearts of the elect. May God Grant You Understanding!

  3. I always love a <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=prov%2027:17&version=49&quot; rel="nofollow">Proverbs 27:17 opportunity. 🙂

    First up: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ps%2053;&version=49;&quot; rel="nofollow">Psalm 53. I'm not sure why you are using Psalm 53, seeing as it doesn't tell us anything about God's response (i.e. hatred)to man's corruptness.

    <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs%206:16-19;&version=49;&quot; rel="nofollow">Prov. 6:16-19 My point will become clearer later, but the question I ask about this now: Is it the person God hates, or his actions?

    It is always a good choice to work from more explicit (easily understood) verses to more obscure ones.

    <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=48&chapter=10&verse=21&version=49&context=verse&quot; rel="nofollow">Mark 10:21 "…Jesus felt a love for him…" Who was the "him" in the verse? Not a believer, seeing as Jesus pointed out the man's love of money/possessions, which was keeping him from believing.

    <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=6&verse=27&version=49&context=verse&quot; rel="nofollow">Luke 6:27 "…love your enemies…" As a command of God, there will be unbelievers who we are to love. If God only loves those who believe, how can He expect us to love our enemies?

    <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=5&verse=8&version=49&context=verse&quot; rel="nofollow">Romans 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Christ died for us "while we were yet sinners", which would be when He hated us, according to your argument. Christ's death on the cross was the greatest expression of love the world has ever seen, and it was for us sinners. <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=56&chapter=2&version=49&quot; rel="nofollow">Ephesians 2 has a similar message at the beginning.

    <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=63&chapter=3&verse=4&version=49&context=verse&quot; rel="nofollow">Titus 3:4 I'll just let that verse speak for itself.

    <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20john%204:7-21;&version=49;&quot; rel="nofollow">1 John 4:7-21 I think the passage topic says it all: "God is love".

    <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Amos%205:14-15;&version=49;&quot; rel="nofollow">Amos 5:14-15 Just to mix it up a bit, here is a passage on what we should hate.

    Let's look at <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mal%201:1-5;&version=49;&quot; rel="nofollow">Malachi 1:1-5 and <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=9&version=49&quot; rel="nofollow">Romans 9. You referenced Romans 9 quite a bit in your post, and Malachi is where Romans 9 gets its quote. Now, coming from the earlier verses about God's love, it is quite clear that these verses are talking about God's hatred for all unbelievers. I'm going to borrow from Ryrie here. The passages in question are comparing Jacob and Esau, who were brothers. God chose Jacob to become the father of His nation and rejected Esau. God's choice of Jacob is His "love", where His rejection of Esau is His "hatred", which is the opposite of love. This is very clear in Romans 9, as it talks about God's position in deciding what He will do with His creation.

    I do agree with you, at least in part, though. Some Christians take 1 John 4 too far and say that because "God is love", He couldn't possibly send anyone to hell, and everybody will go to heaven. That is clearly not the case in the Bible. Those who don't "…confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. " <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%2010:9-10;&version=49;&quot; rel="nofollow">Romans 10:9-10 will face judgment at the great white throne (<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=73&chapter=20&verse=11&version=49&context=verse&quot; rel="nofollow">Revelation 20:11). Even though God is love, He is also righteous. In that we agree.

    cetroyer

  4. I disagree that Psalm 53 is not meaningful in this case. It says that those who do not call upon the Lord are corrupt and have done abominations. It goes on to say that the "children of men" or those not of God, are filthy. These are devouring the people of God or coaxing them in to their sinful ways. All workers of iniquity devour, and encamp against the people of God, this is why God despises them. Summary: God despises those who call not upon Him. Strong's concordance says that this "despise" means to loathe, and loathe means to hate. How is it that this is not meaningful to the topic at hand?

    Luke 6:27, you place a limit on God's power by saying how can he expect. God's Hate is righteous because he is the creature, knows all, and is in a position to judge whether hate is appropriate, he knows our hearts, we are not in a position to pass judgement for we know not another man's heart, and we are imperfect, therefore we are to love all as God commanded for to hate is to pass judgement. I should have explained better who God loves and hates according to the Bible, as we've seen God hates those who are not his, but there are some that are to be his that are not yet his, the yet to be saved elect. Those he loves for they are written in the Lamb's book of life, their names are.

    John 10:11 I am the good shepherd! Jesus will lay down his life for his sheep, and it says that he knows his sheep, and THEY KNOW HIM. His sheep are those that will turn to him and God has mercy on the elect through Christ, He didn't die for those he hated, he died for the elect, while they were sinners, for those are the ones he loves. Titus 3:4 speaks of man, yet it does not speak of all man, as if I were to say I love apples, that doesn't mean I love every apple, that may mean I love a certain aspect of apples, like the taste of them. God loves the possibility of salvation of the human race, not every person in their entirety. It is said that Christ loves man, but it is not specific about what aspect, Does god love the heart of man, the soul of man the Sin of man, ALL OF MAN? nO, and this is not an ambiguous passage, it is meant to be clearly understood.

    1 john 4:7-21, God is love does not mean that is his only characteristic, because he is also just, omnipotent, omniscient, jealous, and according to several verses in the Bible, righteously hating.

    Malachi 1:1-5 says God hates Esau. IN strong's concordance it states that the Hebrew word used in the place of the English word hate, in the original Hebrew text, translates into hate. In other-words, it unmistakably means, when God says He hates Esau, that he Hates Esau. Not just rejects him, but hates him. Mark 10:21, to keep consistent with the rest of the Bible, must be referring to one of the elect that Jesus Loved, yet did not at that time turn to him. May the Peace of Christ be with You.

  5. Cetroyer did a good job at debating using biblical techniques. I will focus on my comment on debating logically.

    Tyler: May grant you understanding!

    Understanding is a relative term. My understanding of a subject will always differ from someone else's. I'd rather have wisdom.

    Tyler: And John 3:16 does not say God loves every person, it says he loved the WORLD

    To interpret this verse correctly, God's character must be called into question. When the Bible makes a blanket statement such as this, God's love is implied absolute, since God is absolute. God created the world, and all the creatures that reside in it. How could God not love his own creations? If God didn't love the world and all in it, then that would imply that God doesn't love something he created. On a sidenote, God's love of the world and man's love of the world are different in context. A man who loves the world is worshipping the world and its sin. God obviously could not be worshipping something he created (especially sin, which He did not create), so His love towards the world is righteous and holy.

    Tyler: as we’ve seen God hates those who are not his, but there are some that are to be his that are not yet his, the yet to be saved elect

    In Mark 10:17-26 (NIV) Jesus looks upon an unbelieving rich man and "loves" him. He tells the rich man what he must do to inherit eternal life. The unbelieving rich man was worshipping the wrong god and was worshipping worldly riches and relying on works to get into heaven. Jesus said to put those riches down and to follow Him. Instead, the rich man walked away. It is implied in this verse that the rich man never chose salvation in Jesus. Yet, Jesus still loved the unbeliever who wasn't the "elect."

    With regards to the "elect" and back to my argument that "God doesn't hate fags", there is no real way to tell who is elect and who isn't. Only God knows. Perhaps according to Tyler's logic, God doesn't hate all fags, since some who commit homosexual acts are indeed the elect. However, I stand by my original argument that God doesn't hate any homosexuals.

    Whether Jesus died for all sinners, or just the elect is outside the scope of this article. There are many books written on the subject and I encourage this debate to occur in a group setting (in person) with pastors present. There are many verses that support both stances, but the real truth is that we'll never know for sure until we are called home.

    If this debate starts leaning towards the theological foundation of who Jesus actually died for, then comments on this post will be turned off. Please keep the debate on the topic at hand, which was "God Doesn't Hate Fags."

    By the way, welcome to the site Tyler. You are most welcome.

  6. you welcome me then you dont let me rebuttle, for i was leaning where im not suppose to go, obviously! I would like to talk with you or my friend cetroyer somewhere if youre interested and if there is a place to do this. God Bless

  7. @Tyler
    I'm on skype (Ronalfy) if you're interested. I'll leave it to cetroyer if he would be interested in continuing this debate via that medium.

    I do not mean to "welcome" you and close down the topic. Unfortunately, it is rather easy to go down a rabbit hole in these types of topics. In my effort to keep the comments focused on the topic of the hand it is necessary.

    One thing I have been unable to get out of your comments is whether you are actually for or against the argument that "God hates fags." Perhaps we can continue the debate publically there.

  8. In short:

    God's love, when spurned, turns to hate.

    There are no opportunities, after you have drawn your last breath, to receive the love of God that one has rejected during his earthly life.

  9. Hi Gang (ie, Ronalfy and Tyler) 🙂

    After a bit more research and talking with my dad (Thanks, Dad), I’m going to refine my position a bit here. I’m going to agree with you, Tyler, and disagree with you. 🙂 Ok, everyone ready? Let’s go.

    I browsed through a search on “hate” at BibleGateway.com. Included are verses that show hate between people, hate toward God, some instruction as what to hate, and a few verses on what God hates. To that point, I think there are a few verses that would better suit your argument, Tyler. Here they are:

    Ps. 5:5 “…You hate all who do iniquity.”

    Ps. 11:5 “…And the one who loves violence His soul hates.”

    So, from those verses, I agree with you; there are people whom God hates. Let’s keep on digging.

    Deut. 1:27 In this case, the Israelites are complaining and in that, saying that God hates them. So, miraculously taking the Israelites out of Egypt, then miraculously providing for them in the desert for 40 years is hate? It is possible to wrongfully ascribe hate to God.

    A different angle on hate:

    Prov. 8:13 Those who fear the Lord (believers), are to hate evil. (also Psalm 97:10).

    Psalm 31:6 Compares hating “those who regard vain idols” to trusting in God.

    Psalm 101:3 Here we are to hate the works “of those who fall away”, and thus keep from doing the same works.

    Psalm 119:104 An excellent passage (Psalm 119) on God’s word. Here, we are to hate “every false way”, because we gain understanding from God’s word. Psalm 119:113 compares hating “those who are double-minded” to loving God’s word.

    Jeremiah 12 Let’s look at the second half of the chapter. Here, God is detailing his judgment on Israel, and He has “come to hate her [Israel]”. How is this shown? In His removing His protection from them and punishing them with the heathen nations around them.

    Let’s switch gears a bit here again.

    Luke 21:17 As believers, we can expect to be hated. To put that in perspective, John 15:18 the world’s hate of us is predated by the world’s hate of God. In fact, we will be hated because of the world’s hate of God, Matthew 10:22.

    And how are we to respond to the world’s hate? Luke 6:27 says we are to love them and do good to them.

    I covered God’s love to some depth in my earlier post. Putting together what we have looked at so far, we know that God hates the wicked, yet He loves them. A contradiction? No. God’s treatment of the wicked demonstrate this. As unbelievers, God hates them because they are contrary to His character (being ruled by sin) and this will result in their eternal condemnation. However, God sent His Son to die on the cross, thus paying the penalty for all sin (past, present, future) in His death on the cross. This shows God’s love for unbelievers and believers in total. Thus, no contradiction.

    My dad made a good point, and I will borrow from his words a bit.
    “God loves the world in general, otherwise He would not have sent His
    unique Son. But He loves believers in a way He does not love
    unbelievers. Eph. 2:2-4 speaks of God’s great love for us
    experienced in the salvation experience; obviously the unbeliever has
    not experienced this. Heb. 12:6 points out that God loves those He
    disciplines, and the rest of the verse makes clear these are the
    people He receives. 1 John 3:1 separates believers from the world in
    that God’s love for them results in them being called His children.
    Rev. 1:5 speaks of God in His love for us releasing us from our sins,
    something the unbeliever has not experienced.”

    God’s love for believers is on a different level than His love for believers, His adopted children.

    One last point: on the Esau verse (Malachi 1:3 and Romans 9:13), I still maintain that this verse should be viewed more as a contrast between God’s love (choice of Jacob) and God’s hate (by not choosing Esau). Another verse may shed some light on this: Luke 14:26. This verse says that those who follow Christ must hate their own family. Now, a person’s family could very well be made up of believers. The hate used here is to put into perspective the believer’s commitment to his family compared to his commitment to God. I love my family, but compared to what my love for God should be, it looks like hate. God comes first, even over family.

    To borrow from the Princess Bride “Let me ‘splain. No, there is too much. Let me sum up.” 🙂

    Tyler, I agree with you that there are people whom God hates. Along with that, we are to hate evil. However, God also does love those whom He hates, to a certain extent. He loves His family more, which is understandable. And we are not to return hate to those who hate us, but love.

    To bring this back to the discussion at hand:  when you boil it down, God does hate some fags, if they fit the constraints of what God hates.  But, how does that jive with what the group at Westboro is doing?  Are they showing love and doing good?  No.  So, even if they can be the slightest bit correct in their slogan, they are wrong in what they are doing.
    Thanks for the discussion; I needed to go back and check out my position, which turned out to need a bit of fine tuning. 🙂

    cetroyer

    P.S. It is rather frustrating when forgetting a ” or writing a/ when doing links…

  10. there is a lot of talk about the hate preacher the Rev.Phelps he has angered many evenupsets evengilicals if you read his web site ther must besome thing wrong with his mind he lost a case were a parent whos son died in the war sued him for mental angwish and other things. what got hiom knowen and up set many was when he tried to eerect a monument in Casper wyoming perclaiming the day Matthew Shpard the murdered 105 college student entered Hell, now isn,t there something in the bibbole that says we are not to gudge others unless wwe want to be guddged. there is aplay called the Laurmie prodgect that whos angle windgs so the morners I don,tt think cold have gone to the funerial and nor a future vice president I asume there wre roit clad wyoming state troopers and WhaT GOT ME YOU THNK THE CTROWED WOULD HAVE DEMANDED CITY PARK THAT WAS THE NAME OF THE PARK BE CALLED sHEPARS PARK, i WOULD LOVE TO SEE IT CALLED SHEPARD cHENNY park for what a pare the two would have made, see WWW Matthew shepard. com th e web runns a few hundred pages

  11. Finally someone who gets it.

    Westbro Baptist Church is a cesspool of hypocrites and pharisees.

    By the way, the above statement in NO WAY should lead you to thinking that I condone Homosexuality. I ardently oppose it.

    But saying that G-d hates Fags is not right. It is totally unbiblical to approach this issue with hate. Love always wins.

  12. devil's advocate

    August 1, 2010 at 4:21 am

    “The logical breakdown of ‘God hates fags’ doesn’t make any sense.”

    Sorry, it assumes God hates the sin, not the sinner, which WBC does not agree with:

    “The notion that God hates the sin, not the sinner, is not found in either of those historical accounts; that lie came from the cow-worshiper Gandhi. Like the rest of doomed america, you have a pastiche religion where you pick and choose crap-talk and crap-think from a variety of human sources, and pretend that is the religion of the Bible. It’s a lie. Christ told the woman taken in adultery, “Go and sin no more.” That’s the relevant message today: Stop your proud filthy sinning, stop glorying in your sin, stop using the name of Christ to justify your sin, and obey. Both women’s hearts were known to Christ, the Son of God; he knew they were God’s elect; he knew they would heed his words; and they stopped sinning and started obeying. The brutish religious leaders in the room were complicit in her adultery; guilty of their own adultery; and utterly without standing to say a word about her sin; just like the whores called preachers and all the churches full of proud sinners are today. ”

    http://blogs.sparenot.com/index.php/workmen/?title=we-have-testimony-to-give-against-platts&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

    Try again.

  13. For all we know, Both God And Jesus could really be Fags themselves.

  14. One of the things listed in Proverbs 6:16-19 is ‘a heart that devises wicked schemes,’ right? Well, by engaging in faggotry, which is wicked, one has to devise a wicked scheme, right? Saying that, you must logically conclude that God does indeed hate fags. By the Biblical passages you posted, you are proving the exact opposite of what you are trying to prove. Have a nice day!

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